Two killed in Tennessee Valley UU Church, Knoxville shooting

Two killed in Tennessee Valley UU Church, Knoxville shooting

Postby Alex on 29 Jul 2008 14:55

2 killed in Tennessee church shooting; suspect charged
updated 10:29 p.m. EDT, Sun July 27, 2008

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- A shotgun-wielding man opened fire at a Unitarian church during a children's play Sunday morning, killing two adults and wounding seven others before being overpowered by congregants, officials said.

One of the victims, Linda Kraeger, 61, died at a hospital several hours after the shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, Knoxville municipal spokesman Randall Kenner said.

Also killed was Greg McKendry, a 60-year-old usher and board member at the church, police said earlier in the day.

A suspect, Jim Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tennessee, was charged with one count of first-degree murder, Kenner said Sunday evening.

Adkisson is not believed to have been a member of the Knoxville church, and investigators have not determined a motive for the shooting, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen told reporters.

"[The motive] is one thing we're obviously aggressively pursuing," Owen said.

Five others were hospitalized in either critical or serious condition, police said.

Two other people hurt in the attack were treated and released, Owen said.

Church member Barbara Kemper told The Associated Press that McKendry "stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us."

Owen told reporters he couldn't comment on whether McKendry confronted the gunman, but he said McKendry apparently "was the first person [the gunman] encountered" in the sanctuary.

Members of the church said a man entered the building at about 10:15 a.m. and began shooting during a children's production of the musical "Annie." About 200 people in the church were watching the production, which was being put on by 25 children, the AP reported.

No child was shot, and a few church members subdued the man and held him until officers arrived, police said. Church members said one of the tacklers was John Bohstedt, a man who had a part in the musical, the AP reported.

"This was a day the church was looking forward to for a long time, and it turned into a nightmare," Bohstedt told Knoxville television station WBIR.

Ken Kitts said he arrived late and saw a couple and a child running out of the church at "super-fast speed."

"Then everybody else started pouring out of the church, lots of them in costume from this show they were putting on," he said.

Inside, he said, was a scene of "absolute chaos," including wounded people and the gunman, who was pinned to the floor by church members.

"He was face-down in middle of a bunch of shotgun shells rolling around on the floor," Kitts said.

Owen said investigators are looking into whether Adkisson has a criminal history. Bail was set at $1 million late Sunday.

"We don't know this particular individual. We may never know why," said Steve Drevik, a church member who arrived after the shooting. "All of this will come out in the next couple of days."

Rick Lambert, the FBI agent in charge of the bureau's Knoxville office, said federal agents are assisting Knoxville police with witness interviews and could help analyze evidence from the crime scene. He said the bureau is examining whether the attack was a hate crime.

"Anytime there is a shooting in a church, there is the possibility it could be a hate crime," he said.

The church, on its Web site, describes itself as a community that has worked for social change -- including desegregation, women's rights and gay rights -- since the 1950s.

Police said people were recording videos of the children's performance when the shooting happened, and investigators were reviewing the videos. Information on what, if anything, the videos show of the shooting wasn't immediately available.

The church's minister, Chris Buice, said he was on vacation when the shooting happened but rushed back when he heard what occurred. Sunday afternoon -- after McKendry's death but before Kraeger's -- he spoke briefly to reporters.

"Please pray for this congregation, because we are grieving the loss of a wonderful man," Buice said as he choked back tears.

Sunday's attack was the fourth time in 15 months that an American church became a scene of a fatal shooting.

In December 2007, a 24-year-old former missionary candidate killed two people at a suburban Denver, Colorado, missionary training center and two more at a Colorado Springs megachurch the following day. The gunman, Matthew Murray, killed himself after being shot by a security guard.

The previous August, police said, 52-year-old Eiken Saimon shot and killed three people and wounded five others at a Congregational church in Neosho, Missouri. The attack left three people dead and five wounded.

And that May, in Moscow, Idaho, 36-year-old Jason Hamilton fatally shot a police officer and a sexton at First Presbyterian Church, then killed himself before police stormed the building. Hamilton's wife was found shot to death in the bedroom of their Moscow home after the church shootings.




Two Killed In US Church Shooting
SkyNews - Monday, July 28 08:42 am

Two people have been killed by a gunman who opened fire with a shotgun during a children's performance at an American church.

Seven adults were also injured at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville.

No children, who had been singing songs from the musical Annie to the 200-strong congregation, were harmed.

Television reports said the gunman burst into the church and indiscriminately opened fire at parishioners.

He was eventually stopped by members of the congregation while he was reloading and taken into police custody.

City spokesman Randy Kenner said Jim D Adkisson had been charged with first-degree murder and was being held on $1 million bail.

It is reported he had concealed his gun in a guitar case and shouted "hateful" words during his shooting spree.

Greg McKendry, a longtime church member and usher, was killed while Linda Kraeger died at the University of Tennessee Medical Centre a few hours after the shooting.

Church member Barbara Kemper said Mr McKendry had stood in front of the gunman and "took the blast" to protect others.

Five people remain in hospital, all in critical or serious conditions. Two others were treated and released.

A motive has not yet been established but some believe the liberal church may have been targeted because it allows gay ministers and marriages.





瘋槍手闖教會 勇男肉身擋彈犧牲生命 保住25名表演兒童
2008年07月29日蘋果日報

【蔡文英╱綜合外電報導】美國又傳教會槍擊案。田納西州諾克斯維爾「一位普救教會」,前天舉辦兒童音樂劇時,遭一名持霰彈槍男子闖入開槍,一名英勇的教友站在槍手面前以肉身擋子彈,保護其他人,但瘋狂槍手開了3槍,造成包括該名英勇男子在內2人死亡、7人輕重傷,兇嫌隨後被其他教友制伏,依一級謀殺罪名起訴。

艾其森(Jim D. Adkisson)現年58歲。前天他提著一個內裝霰彈槍的吉他盒,走進正在演《安妮》(Annie)音樂劇的「田納西谷一位普救教會」(Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church)。當時台上25名孩童正在唱歌,台下有200名觀眾。目擊者指,艾其森在上午10時15分走進教會不久就從吉他盒拿出霰彈槍開槍。教友坎普向美聯社表示,教會招待員麥肯德里(Greg McKendry)「站在槍手前面,擋下子彈,保護我們其他人。」麥肯德里當場喪命。舞台上孩童無人傷亡。

兇手遭數人制伏
另一名女受害人克雷格送醫後不治。其他7名傷者,5人傷勢嚴重。教友吉茲指,當時他遲到,快到教會時,只見一對夫婦和一個小孩以「超快速」逃出,接著所有人都跑出來。教會內一片混亂,艾其森被數名教友制伏在地,「他臉朝下,地板上散落一堆霰彈槍彈殼。」
坐第一排的教友哈默回憶,表演才開始就傳出巨響。他原以為是戲劇效果,接著傳出第二聲,他才蹲下找掩護。他看到後面有名婦女流血了,「感覺很不真實,你坐在教會裡,看兒童表演,卻突然槍聲大作」。他後面第二排和第三排的人都受傷。
諾克斯維爾(Knoxville)警察首長歐文表示,兇嫌不是教友,還不清楚動機。歐文對於麥肯德里是否以肉身擋子彈一事不予置評,但說很顯然麥肯德里是兇嫌進入教會遇到的第一人。

開火前大叫辱罵
目擊者坎普說,兇嫌開火前大叫,罵著充滿憎恨的話。但她不願說明他罵了哪些話。聯邦調查局(Federal Bureau of Investigation,FBI)正協助調查是否為仇恨犯罪。艾其森的保釋金額為100萬美元(約3045萬元台幣)。
麥肯德里18歲養子貝塞特事後接受媒體訪問時表示,希望媒體能宣揚他父親的英勇事蹟。許多教友也稱讚麥肯德里是經常助人的大善人。
至於兇嫌艾其森,鄰居稱他會自動幫忙換輪胎,但對宗教的反應很激烈。鄰人馬賽指,有次她跟艾其森分享女兒從強森聖經學院畢業的消息,沒想到艾其森很生氣,說《聖經》所有說法都相互矛盾。而且他常說他父母一輩子都在逼他上教會。




:cry: :cry: :cry:
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Postby Alex on 29 Jul 2008 16:33

Liberal Hatred Drove Church Shooter
By AP/DUNCAN MANSFIELD
Monday, Jul. 28, 2008
TIME

(KNOXVILLE, Tenn.) — An unemployed man accused of opening fire with a shotgun and killing two people at a Unitarian Universalist church apparently targeted the congregation out of hatred for its support of liberal social policies, police said Monday.

Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said a signed, four-page letter written by Jim D. Adkisson, 58, was found in his small SUV in the church parking lot. The gunfire punctuated a children's performance based on the musical "Annie" Sunday, killing two and wounding seven. It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said at a news conference.

No children were hurt, but five people remained in serious or critical condition Monday. A burly usher who died was hailed as a hero for shielding others from gunfire at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. Witnesses said some of the church members wrestled the suspect to the ground after he pulled a shotgun from a guitar case and fired three times.

Adkisson, who is charged with one count of first-degree murder, remained jailed Monday under "close observation" on $1 million bail, authorities said. More charges were expected.

Court records from neighboring Anderson County indicate Adkisson threatened violence against his spouse several years ago. In March 2000 his then-wife, Liza Alexander, obtained an order of protection against him after telling a judge that Adkisson had threatened "to blow my brains out and then blow his own brains out."

The woman's written request for protection, reviewed by The Associated Press, said she was "in fear for my life and what he might do."

The Unitarian-Universalist church promotes progressive social work, including advocacy of women and gay rights. The Knoxville congregation also has provided sanctuary for political refugees, fed the homeless and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, according to its Web site.

Owen said the letter indicated Adkisson, who neighbors said had previously worked as a truck driver, did not expect to leave the church alive. He added the man reported having no family or next-of-kin. "He certainly intended to take a lot of casualties," Owen said. "He had 76 rounds with him."

Police said Adkisson carried a 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun into the church in a guitar case, but it appeared no specific person was targeted. A search of his house also turned up a .38-caliber handgun, Owen added.

Owen said authorities believe the suspect had gone to the Unitarian church because of "some publicity in the recent past regarding its liberal stance on things."




Affidavit: Man admits church shooting, says liberals should die
July 28, 2008 -- Updated 0315 GMT (1115 HKT)

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- A man accused of fatally shooting two adults and wounding seven others at a Knoxville church told police the church's liberal teachings prompted him to attack, according to court papers.

Jim David Adkisson told investigators all liberals should be killed and admitted he shot people Sunday morning at Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, according to a search warrant affidavit obtained by CNN affiliate WBIR.

Also, a four-page letter police found in Adkisson's vehicle indicated he was motivated by frustration over being unable to obtain a job, authorities said Monday.

Police said Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tennessee, walked into the church's sanctuary during a children's musical performance and fired a shotgun before being overpowered by congregants and arrested. Adkisson -- who police said wasn't a member of the church -- has been charged with one count of first-degree murder.

According to the affidavit requesting to search Adkisson's home, the suspect told investigators liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country. Adkisson also blamed Democrats for the country's decline, according to the affidavit.

"He felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets," the affidavit said. "Because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement ... he would then target those that had voted them into office."

Killed in the shooting were Linda Kraeger, 61, and Greg McKendry, 60, police said. Witnesses said McKendry, an usher and board member at the church, tried to shield others when he was shot, according to The Associated Press.

Four of the seven surviving wounded were still in the University of Tennessee Medical Center on Monday evening. Officials there said two patients were in critical condition and one was "stable." The hospital would not release information about the fourth person.

At a news conference Monday, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said Adkisson left a note in his vehicle before entering the church, thinking police would kill him after the shooting began.

Owen said the letter, signed by Adkisson but not addressed to anyone, expressed hatred for gay people and what he called the liberal movement.

According to Out & About, a gay newspaper based in Nashville, Tennessee, the church was home to several gay and gay-friendly groups and recently posted a "gays welcome" sign "as part of its long-range planning to conduct more outreach and welcome" to gay men and lesbians.

The church, on its Web site, describes itself as a community that has worked for social change -- including desegregation, women's rights and gay rights -- since the 1950s.

The case is being investigated as a hate crime, Owen said.

Owen also said the letter expressed Adkisson's frustrations at not being able to find employment. Authorities also discovered a letter from the state government telling Adkisson he was having his food stamps reduced or eliminated, police said.

Owen said Adkisson has resided in the Knoxville area for three or four years and his last known employment was in 2006. Neighbors told The Associated Press Adkisson had been a truck driver, and Owen said Adkisson has an associate's degree in mechanical engineering.

"He did express that frustration, that the liberal movement was getting more jobs," Owen told reporters. "And he felt like he was being kept out of the loop because of his age."

Investigators found 76 shotgun shells in the church, Owen said. Three rounds were fired from a 12-gauge shotgun that was brought into the church hidden in a guitar case, police said.

There is "an indication he was not targeting the children," but that has not been conclusively determined, Owen said.

During a search of Adkisson's home, investigators confiscated a handgun, a sawed-off shotgun barrel and books by conservative commentators, authorities said.

The shooting came eight years after Adkisson, according to divorce documents, threatened to kill his fourth wife and himself.

In a 2000 complaint filed in Tennessee's Anderson County, his then-wife, Liza Alexander, said she was "in fear for my life and what he might do." She also claimed that Adkisson "drinks heavily every day, and becomes belligerent, and makes threats."

"My husband, Jim David Adkisson told a friend of mine that one of his options is to blow my brains out and then blow his own brains out (I heard him say this)," Alexander wrote in her petition for a protection order, which she was granted.

The only criminal record authorities have found of Adkisson shows two instances of driving under the influence -- one in California "a number of years ago" and one "more recently" in Tennessee, Owen said.

Authorities have been told that Adkisson was once in the military, a member of the 101st Airborne Division, Owen said.

Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb, an Army spokeswoman, said there is a record of a Jim David Adkisson who served beginning in 1974. He was released from active duty in 1977 and discharged in 1980. He was a helicopter repairman with the 163rd Aviation Co. at Fort Campbell, Kentucky -- part of the 101st Airborne Division.

Adkisson's military record shows that in 1977 he was demoted from a specialist 4th class to private. Information about why Adkisson was demoted wasn't available.

Neighbors said Adkisson was quiet and kept to himself.

"He never went anywhere. He never had anybody over. Just, it was really quiet. He rode a motorcycle and you know he would go out on the weekends on his motorcycle, but other than that, you never heard from him," Melissa Coker told WVLT-TV.

Coker told the AP that Adkisson had been a truck driver, but she didn't think he'd been working steadily in the past six months.

"He's just a really, really nice guy," Coker told the AP.

Adkisson's landlord said she did not know him well enough to make any comments on his character but said he was a good tenant who paid his bills, according to CNN affiliate WBIR-TV.

Bail was set at $1 million late Sunday.

Police said people were recording videos of the children's performance when the shooting happened, and investigators were reviewing the videos. Information on what, if anything, the videos show of the shooting wasn't immediately available.

Three of the wounded were relatives who were visiting the church for the first time Sunday. WVLT identified the three as Joe Barnhart, 76; Jack Barnhart, 69; and Betty Barnhart, 71, who was treated and released Sunday.

A statement released by the family Monday said: "The entire Barnhart family would like to thank our friends and the community for their calls, visits and prayers. ... Our family members continue to recover and we ask that your prayers continue for all that have been involved in this tragic event."
Last edited by Alex on 30 Jul 2008 14:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alex on 30 Jul 2008 14:32

Tennessee Man Cites Church's Liberal Values As Reason For Shooting
by Daniel Nasaw
Published on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 by The Guardian/UK

KNOXVILLE, Tennesse - A man who shot and killed two parishioners during a children's play at a Tennessee church yesterday attacked the congregation because of its outspoken socially liberal and gay-friendly beliefs, police said.

The 58-year-old unemployed engineer accused in the Sunday morning attack at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, was driven to bloodshed in part by his "stated hatred for the liberal movement" as well as his hatred for gays, said Knoxville, Tennessee, police chief Sterling Owen. "We're certainly investigating it as a hate crime."

According to police, at about 10am yesterday Jim Adkisson strode into the church sanctuary as 200 parishioners watched a children's production of the musical "Annie". He pulled a .12 gauge shotgun from a guitar case and fire three rounds, killing two adults, police said. One of the dead was shot as he attempted to shield others from gunfire, witnesses said. Parishioners then tackled Adkisson and held him until police arrived.

"I do not believe he expected to leave there alive," Owen said. He said Adkisson had been planning the attack for a week, but added

"I'm sure this is something that's been building a long time."

Investigators described Adkisson as a former member of an Army airborne unit who trained as a mechanical engineer and had held jobs across the country. He had apparently been out of work since 2006, and believed liberals were taking jobs he should have, Owen said. Investigators are not aware of any affiliation with a church or with any known hate groups. Adkisson had no next of kin or family, police said.

According to a four-page manifesto police found in his SUV in the church parking lot, Adkisson believed the church to be a bastion of liberalism in an otherwise socially conservative area of eastern Tennessee.

"That church had received some publicity in the recent past regarding its liberal stance on things," Owen said, "and that is at least one of the issues we believe caused that church to be targeted".

The church's website speaks of its "long and rich history of taking stands for social justice," and said it has fought since the 1950s for racial desegregation, fair wages and equal treatment for women and homosexuals. It provides sanctuary for political refugees and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The church hosts social events for gay and lesbian teens.

The FBI logged 7,722 hate crimes in 2006, the most recent year for which complete statistics are available. That is down slightly from 2000. Hate crime attacks at churches are rare, according to FBI statistics. Only 4% in 2006 occurred at places of worship.

An FBI official said federal law enforcement officials were investigating whether to prosecute Adkisson for forcibly preventing the free expression of worship, a federal civil rights violation.

Adkisson is charged with first-degree murder and is held on $1m bail.
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Postby Alex on 30 Jul 2008 14:56

Below is a link to a local station for more detail and regular updates. You can also listen to some interviews.
www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?stor ... 22&catid=2

If you are on Facebook, please join up with the newly-formed group called "Thoughts&Prayers--Knoxville UU" (now over 400 members) and write your condolences on their wall. They are also asking for people to send origami paper cranes to their RE children for healing.

c/o Brian Griffin, Director of Life Span Religious Education
Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church
2931 Kingston Pike
Knoxville, Tennessee 37919


Here are the instructions: http://monkey.org/~aidan/origami/crane


KokHeong McNaughton
Asian/Pacific Islander Caucus
Diverse and Revolutionary UU Multicultural Ministries
Distributed through general@apiuu.org
Last edited by Alex on 02 Aug 2008 23:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Alex on 30 Jul 2008 15:12

Alex
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Postby Alex on 31 Jul 2008 10:11

How UUs Can Respond To The Knoxville Tragedy

Dear Mid-South Friends,

All of us are saddened and shocked by the tragedy in Knoxville this past Sunday...and many congregations and individuals are looking for ways to respond and to help. Monday night saw vigils and TV videos from across our district -- from Cookeville, TN, to Atlanta, GA, to Jackson, MS, to Huntsville, AL -- and more special services are scheduled for future days.

To learn about a number of ways to help and respond, visit the link below. ** You can also post any services or vigils your congregation has scheduled or done here: http://www.uua.org/news/newssubmissions/117156.shtml

In addition, the UUA web site now has a page where you can post messages for those in the Tennessee congregations most affected by the incident:
http://knoxvillesupport.blogspot.com

And, a Knoxville Relief Fund has been established at this link: http://www.uua.org/giving/donatenow/117168.shtml

Mid-South District's web site has a number of resources for this difficult time posted on the front page (www.msduua.org), and it will soon be updated to reflect the links above.

Lastly, later today the Mid-South Office will send some special resources to members of UP! Teams in the UP! Program for small congregations.


Blessings to all,

Eunice Benton ebenton@uua.org
Executive Director
Mid-South District Office, UUA www.msduua.org
9 County Road 1058, Oxford, MS 38655
Phone/Fax: 662-234-4423
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Postby Alex on 02 Aug 2008 23:15

Statement from Rev. William G. Sinkford, President, Unitarian Universalist Association
July 27, 2008

I am shocked and sorrowed by the terrible shootings in the sanctuary of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. My heart is heavy and my prayers are with our injured sisters and brothers in Knoxville. While many details of this tragedy remain unclear, our Association will do all we can to support Unitarian Universalists in Knoxville in the hard days to come.

A tragedy such as this makes us acutely conscious of the beauty and fragility of our lives and those of our loved ones. I am especially saddened by this intrusion of violence into a worship service involving children and youth. I know that many people, both in Knoxville and around the country, are struggling with shock and grief right now. I pray that those so affected will find strength and comfort.

Members of the Unitarian Universalist Trauma Response Ministry are on their way to Knoxville to offer additional ministry to the congregation as it grieves. And Unitarian Universalists around the world are sending love and prayers to the Tennessee Valley congregation to tell them they are not alone on this dark day.
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Postby Alex on 01 Sep 2008 11:49

On the August 1st SSS meeting, we made paper cranes to be sent to TVUUC:
http://ssshk.tripod.com/pics/index.albu ... -2008?i=28

Items sent included the paper cranes, gathering photos, and a blessing card with Chinese calligraphy and embroidery.
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Postby Alex on 24 Oct 2008 14:31

Joe Barnhart remembers friend Linda Kraeger
Knoxville church-shooting victims part of a close-knit circle of family and friends.
By Jane Greer
8.18.08
www.uuworld.org/news/articles/117995.shtml


Salute to the martyrs of Unitarian Universalism (religious liberalism) :!:
向 UU (宗教自由主義) 的殉道者致敬 :!:
Unitarian Universalists Hong Kong 尋道會 www.uuhk.org
UU Religious Naturalists 宗教自然主義者 www.uurn.org
UU Humanists 人文主義者 www.HUUmanists.org
UU Buddhists 佛教徒 www.uubf.org
UU Christians 基督徒 www.uuchristian.org

We need new ways to talk about "belief" and "unbelief". We need a realistic and loving liberal religion that even an Atheist can love. ---Rev Brian Covell, www.thirdunitarianchurch.org
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Postby Alex on 01 May 2009 23:06

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Knoxv ... h_shooting



Church shooter pleads guilty; letter released
Adkisson to spend life behind bars for crimes
By Jamie Satterfield
February 10, 2009
knoxnews.com
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/feb/1 ... -released/

"I'd like to encourage other like-minded people to do what I've done," Adkisson wrote. "If life ain't worth living anymore, don't just kill yourself. Do something for your country before you go. Go kill liberals."
...
"He [Adkisson] said if he got out (of prison), he'd do it again," Chamberlain [Adkisson's cell-mate] said.

In his manifesto, Adkisson deemed his rampage part "political protest" and part "symbolic killing."

"This was a hate crime," he wrote. "Liberals are a pest like termites, millions of them...the only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets, kill them where they gather."

:shock:

選譯:

槍手宣言:
我鼓勵其他想法與我相近的人效法我所作的…為國家做點事。去,殺死自由派。
自由派,像白蟻一樣,是害蟲,數以百萬計。我們要擺脫這種邪惡,唯一辦法,就是殺死牠們,在街上殺死牠們,在牠們聚集的地方殺死牠們。

槍手的囚友說:槍手說,如果他能離開監獄,他一定繼續進行槍殺。
Unitarian Universalists Hong Kong 尋道會 www.uuhk.org
UU Religious Naturalists 宗教自然主義者 www.uurn.org
UU Humanists 人文主義者 www.HUUmanists.org
UU Buddhists 佛教徒 www.uubf.org
UU Christians 基督徒 www.uuchristian.org

We need new ways to talk about "belief" and "unbelief". We need a realistic and loving liberal religion that even an Atheist can love. ---Rev Brian Covell, www.thirdunitarianchurch.org
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